Discussion:
What programs do you make sure are installed on a new Linux install?
(too old to reply)
Borax Man
2024-07-07 01:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?

For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
rbowman
2024-07-07 02:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
latest Python, including MicroPython/CircuitPython
vim
VS Code with several extensions
clang
gcc, including some microprocessor toolchains
.NET SDK
QGIS
PostgreSQL
SQLite
DBeaver
Arduino IDE, V1 and/or V2
Brave
Tor
npm and friends
screen
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-07 03:40:40 UTC
Permalink
latest Python ...
Also Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>. Actually JupyterLab now.

Well-known for being a powerful data-analysis framework, but also handy
for quick “scratchpad” programming, and not just in Python. The overhead
is low enough that I can keep it running all the time.
rbowman
2024-07-07 04:07:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
latest Python ...
Also Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>. Actually JupyterLab now.
Well-known for being a powerful data-analysis framework, but also handy
for quick “scratchpad” programming, and not just in Python. The overhead
is low enough that I can keep it running all the time.
I do have jupyter installed and have used it for tutorials but it's not
something I use frequently.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-07 04:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Also Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>. Actually JupyterLab now.
Well-known for being a powerful data-analysis framework, but also handy
for quick “scratchpad” programming, and not just in Python. The
overhead is low enough that I can keep it running all the time.
I do have jupyter installed and have used it for tutorials but it's not
something I use frequently.
It’s what I use when I need a calculator. And you get programmability
and multiple symbolic memories for free.

Practical example: car tyre pressures are supposed to be measured when
cold. What happens if I do it when they’re hot?

recommended_pressure = 36 # psi
cold_temp = 293 # kelvin
hot_temp = 333
print("actual pressure = %.2f psi" % (recommended_pressure * cold_temp / hot_temp))
print("underinflation factor = %.1f%%" % ((hot_temp - cold_temp) / hot_temp * 100))

Output:

actual pressure = 31.68 psi
underinflation factor = 12.0%
vallor
2024-07-07 04:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
pan(1)

I build it from the git repository, linking it with a newer
gmime. (The latter has a recent patch that fixes Newsgroups: handling.)

The cmake that comes with Linux Mint isn't new enough to build the
pan grabbed with git, so that too.

(Sometimes it seems it's turtles all the way down...)

Oh, and tart(1) for the pithy taglines...
--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-113-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
"355/113 - Not the famous number Pi, but a great simulation!"
yeti
2024-07-07 06:32:14 UTC
Permalink
I'll probably soon regret this list. Please read my signature as
disclaimer.


ack (in /opt)

playing with B sometimes is nice and it has a back-end for 8080 and
Z80 (CP/M) too which sometimes for me is nice to have.

bash-completion

it's ok to be a little lazy.

bc (gavin howard version, includes dc in /opt)

having a dc variant with long register names makes playing the dc
puzzle even nicer.

bitlbee

I want to read my jabber stuff in the same front-end as my IRC chats.

dc

mostly just for fun (as puzzle).

dillo (in /opt until available as up to date package)

writing own dillo plugins is easy and that makes dillo a nice GUI
front-end to smallnet protocols.

doas/opendoas

I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.

drawterm (in /opt)

for some top secret reasons.

ed

knowing at least its very basic commands can save your day.

elinks

for some of the smallnet protocols.

emacs

I'd give every other "editor" a chance that gives me elpher, eshell,
GNUS, org-babel and tramp (mastodon.el occasionally). really... ;-D

evolution

I too often get important HTrashMailL to be happy with only using
GNUS. additionally splitting "official" stuff from hobby mail & news
is not a too bad idea.

gambit (scheme, in /opt)

trying to stay up to date with its master branch. I feel like still
in scheme-preschool, but that may change someday.

git

we cannot live with it and we cannot live without it.
<https://xkcd.com/1597/>

mawk

I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.

mc

trying to fade out using it but muscle memory is strong.

micropython (in /opt)

to have the unix version at hand to play out some ideas without
needing to attach a micro-controller.

netcat & ncat

life savers for poking around in text based protocols.

nvi

to replace nano and vim-tiny (if in a default install), as I don't
want to get used to vim-isms.

openssh

I'm too used to its config files, so alternative implementations would
screw me up.

qemu

curiosity kills the cat but keeps me alive.

pcc (portable cc, in /opt)

for fun and curiosity.

rlwrap

debugging luxury, try e.g. 'rlwrap nc newsserver nntp' \o/

rsync

openrsync doesn't really replace it yet.

screen

I'd need way to many xterms without it and it can access serially
connected stuff directly. that's the only reason I prefer it over
tmux.

sudo

until I'm confident that I really only need (open)doas.

t(iny)cc (in /opt)

built from its mob branch, because the distributions typically only
include way too outdated versions.

tlsclient

as bonsai tree in /opt, see drawterm.

tor

looking for an alternative because I don't want to get dependent on
Rust (because of arti).

uxn (in /opt)

for fun and puzzling.

w3m

w3mman is my favourite man page front-end outside of emacs.

weechat

typically from the project's repo because they are too fast for
e.g. debian/devuan to keep up with their updates.

wget

...still is more in my muscle memory than curl.

xterm

looks like there is no alternative if I want SIXELs and occasionally
TEK mode.

...

something to scan, print, do the heavy WWW-stuff with all the mean
modern stuff inside, some devtools and compilers, ...
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-07 07:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
doas/opendoas
I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.
systemd-run0 might be the New Hawtness.
Post by yeti
mawk
I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.
perl >> awk (any awk)
Post by yeti
netcat & ncat
life savers for poking around in text based protocols.
Why not socat?
Post by yeti
rsync
openrsync doesn't really replace it yet.
Never heard of openrsync ... ah, another project that exists solely for
licence-political reasons. Not to mention, BSD fragmentation strikes
again!
Post by yeti
wget
...still is more in my muscle memory than curl.
Not to mention having a much smaller potential attack surface.
yeti
2024-07-07 09:28:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
doas/opendoas
I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.
systemd-run0 might be the New Hawtness.
No way! I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
have decided what to use instead. I had a mega fight the other day to
get NFS automounts working with it. It would have been just some
minutes without systemd swallowing every function and doing it in a
totally different unreadable and overcomplicated way.

But the decision not to want systemd is much older. I already partially
switched to Devuan, but then Devuan's ARM-SBC images drove me back to
Debian at least for the ARMish ones.

Now that Debian decided to drop X86, switching away from it is even more
urgent and Devuan (still a good choice on AMD64 and X86) won't be able
to compensate for that.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
mawk
I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.
perl >> awk (any awk)
I have AWK in OpenWrt and NetBSD default installs. Perl not. So I
benefit more from keeping my AWK muscles intact.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
netcat & ncat
life savers for poking around in text based protocols.
Why not socat?
I never looked closer at socat and meanwhile I do stuff that's too
complex for n(et)cat in C, micropython or scheme, so I have enough
alternatives without learning new socat tricks.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
rsync
openrsync doesn't really replace it yet.
Never heard of openrsync ... ah, another project that exists solely for
licence-political reasons. Not to mention, BSD fragmentation strikes
again!
openrsync lacks a lot of features and was crash-happy when I tried to
use it because I assumed it'd be lighter than the original.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
wget
...still is more in my muscle memory than curl.
Not to mention having a much smaller potential attack surface.
\o/
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
Borax Man
2024-07-07 09:30:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
doas/opendoas
I'm still in the progress to migrate from sudo to doas.
systemd-run0 might be the New Hawtness.
Now that Debian decided to drop X86, switching away from it is even more
urgent and Devuan (still a good choice on AMD64 and X86) won't be able
to compensate for that.
I thought they were continuing X86 support for Debian 13.
yeti
2024-07-07 09:53:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
I thought they were continuing X86 support for Debian 13.
A while I read something about dropping X86 without a concrete date in
some mini-debconf notes. There may be decisions now about the date, but
I just do not care any more about it. Alea iacta est.

Being a Debian user since it's pre-releases without even toy-story
names, that really hurts, but my way forward only can mean leaving
De(bi|vu)an.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
Borax Man
2024-07-07 10:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
Post by Borax Man
I thought they were continuing X86 support for Debian 13.
A while I read something about dropping X86 without a concrete date in
some mini-debconf notes. There may be decisions now about the date, but
I just do not care any more about it. Alea iacta est.
Being a Debian user since it's pre-releases without even toy-story
names, that really hurts, but my way forward only can mean leaving
De(bi|vu)an.
I see this
https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/19/debian_to_drop_x86_32/

But the Debian release notes state
https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/release-notes/whats-new.en.html#supported-architectures
Post by yeti
32-bit PC (i386) and 64-bit PC (amd64)
64-bit ARM (arm64)
ARM EABI (armel)
ARMv7 (EABI hard-float ABI, armhf)
little-endian MIPS (mipsel)
64-bit little-endian MIPS (mips64el)
64-bit little-endian PowerPC (ppc64el)
IBM System z (s390x)
Baseline bump for 32-bit PC to i686
The 32-bit PC support (known as the Debian architecture i386) now requires the "long NOP" instruction. Please refer to Baseline for 32-bit PC is now i686 for more information.
The release notes are also dated 2023, so I'm not sure whether The
Register article superceded the release notes or not.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-07 21:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
have decided what to use instead.
Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?
rbowman
2024-07-07 21:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I have
decided what to use instead.
Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?
Someday when I'm really bored I'll have to figure out why some people hate
systemd.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-07 21:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Someday when I'm really bored I'll have to figure out why some people hate
systemd.
systemd-haters are like the anti-fluoridationists of the Open Source movement.
Popping Mad
2024-07-07 23:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
systemd-haters are like the anti-fluoridationists of the Open Source movement.
That is bullshit. Flouridation is harmless, useful and protcects your
teeth. Systemd is none of those things. And FWIW, it is the Free
Software movement. You don't want to restrict Linux to only opensource.


Artix is quite good, simple and stable.

Unlike Systemd, it just works.
rbowman
2024-07-08 00:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Popping Mad
That is bullshit. Flouridation is harmless, useful and protcects your
teeth. Systemd is none of those things. And FWIW, it is the Free
Software movement. You don't want to restrict Linux to only opensource.
https://opensource.org/about

Certainly you wouldn't want to restrict yourself to Stallman's Free
Software Foundation.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 05:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Popping Mad
Artix is quite good, simple and stable.
Interesting that all their anti-systemd rants are years out of date.
Post by Popping Mad
Unlike Systemd, it just works.
Did you know that systemd offers better compatibility with old sysvinit
scripts than, say, OpenRC can manage?
Nuno Silva
2024-07-08 15:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Popping Mad
Artix is quite good, simple and stable.
Interesting that all their anti-systemd rants are years out of date.
Post by Popping Mad
Unlike Systemd, it just works.
Did you know that systemd offers better compatibility with old sysvinit
scripts than, say, OpenRC can manage?
You're the one who is trying to turn this into an argument over systemd
and trying to portray those who do not like systemd as "haters".

If that's not what you meant, I'm sorry, maybe I misread some post?

This is starting to sound like what some wayland users say on the
Internet as soon as someone dares to say they're using X11, or worse,
when they present situations that cannot be handled using Wayland, and
the response is verbal violence, dismissal and hate.

The world isn't just systemd. If the culture is going to be that one
must use or worship systemd to use a linux-based system, maybe it's
better to check what shall I migrate to :-P
--
Nuno Silva
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 23:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nuno Silva
You're the one who is trying to turn this into an argument over systemd
and trying to portray those who do not like systemd as "haters".
Was I, indeed? Go to the Artix site, and the first thing you see is a
bunch of links to outdated anti-systemd rants. The primary raison d’être
of this particular distro seems to be hatred of systemd.
D
2024-07-08 09:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Popping Mad
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
systemd-haters are like the anti-fluoridationists of the Open Source movement.
That is bullshit. Flouridation is harmless, useful and protcects your
teeth. Systemd is none of those things. And FWIW, it is the Free
Software movement. You don't want to restrict Linux to only opensource.
Artix is quite good, simple and stable.
Unlike Systemd, it just works.
And Lawrence loses again! =)
The Natural Philosopher
2024-07-09 08:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I have
decided what to use instead.
Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?
Someday when I'm really bored I'll have to figure out why some people hate
systemd.
Because it has been released way before all the bugs, inconsistencies
and documentation have been sorted out.

As well as all the third party apps invoked by it having to change their
startup scripts and methodologies.
--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 00:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Because it has been released way before all the bugs, inconsistencies
and documentation have been sorted out.
Nobody should be expressing an opinion about systemd before reading this
first: <http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html>.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
As well as all the third party apps invoked by it having to change
their startup scripts and methodologies.
It actually offers better backward compatibility with sysvinit than some
other alternative init systems.
Computer Nerd Kev
2024-07-07 22:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
have decided what to use instead.
Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?
No need to, there's already SysV init. I make sure it (or something
functionally similar) is installed.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Popping Mad
2024-07-07 23:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Is there anything better than systemd?
Anything

Why not create something?

No need...

https://forum.artixlinux.org/
Bobbie Sellers
2024-07-08 03:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
I'll rip out all systemd using distributions here as soon as I
have decided what to use instead.
Is there anything better than systemd? Why not create something?
The proper question is "Is there anything worse that systemd?"

Systemd combines too many functions in one program and when Klaus
Knopper looked at it he did write his own startup. In PCLinuxOS
we still use SysVinit and have few proplems in our Rolling Release
but I am just a user and when I first encounted systemd in
Mageia it was early days and I had lots of problems with it.

bliss
--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com
yeti
2024-07-08 05:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobbie Sellers
The proper question is "Is there anything worse that systemd?"
Systemd hopping over to BSD?

The Tragedy of systemd

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 23:22:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
mawk
I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.
perl >> awk (any awk)
I have AWK in OpenWrt and NetBSD default installs. Perl not. So I
benefit more from keeping my AWK muscles intact.
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does, just as concisely, and a lot more besides.
yeti
2024-07-09 00:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
mawk
I like "-We" and dislike GAWKisms.
perl >> awk (any awk)
I have AWK in OpenWrt and NetBSD default installs. Perl not. So I
benefit more from keeping my AWK muscles intact.
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does,
Like being present in OpenWrt and BSD's default install?
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
just as concisely, and a lot more besides.
Amen.


Just for the giggles:

93% of Paint Splatters are Valid Perl Programs
Colin McMillen and Tim Toady
twitter.com/mcmillen & famicol.in/sigbovik
<https://www.mcmillen.dev/sigbovik/2019.pdf>
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-09 05:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does,
Like being present in OpenWrt and BSD's default install?
That’s why this thread is about stuff you want to make sure is present,
not relying on the distro defaults.
yeti
2024-07-09 08:26:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does,
Like being present in OpenWrt and BSD's default install?
That’s why this thread is about stuff you want to make sure is present,
not relying on the distro defaults.
I mentioned to *install* MAWK because of -We and then it was YOU who
turned that into a "PERL is better" discussion.
--
Trust me, I know what I'm doing...
D
2024-07-09 10:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does,
Like being present in OpenWrt and BSD's default install?
That’s why this thread is about stuff you want to make sure is present,
not relying on the distro defaults.
I mentioned to *install* MAWK because of -We and then it was YOU who
turned that into a "PERL is better" discussion.
Note that Lawrence thrives on conflict. His classic move is to refuse to
answer your arguments, reframe or rephrase the original question and act
as if that was what you were talking about all along.

Take a good piece of advice and just ignore him.
yeti
2024-07-09 10:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by D
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does,
Like being present in OpenWrt and BSD's default install?
That’s why this thread is about stuff you want to make sure is present,
not relying on the distro defaults.
I mentioned to *install* MAWK because of -We and then it was YOU who
turned that into a "PERL is better" discussion.
Note that Lawrence thrives on conflict. His classic move is to refuse
to answer your arguments, reframe or rephrase the original question
and act as if that was what you were talking about all along.
Ok, that's good news: I'm not hallucinating... \o/
Post by D
Take a good piece of advice and just ignore him.
Yip.
--
4. Hitchhiker 11:
(72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
(73) "Shit!"
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 00:40:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by yeti
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does,
Like being present in OpenWrt and BSD's default install?
That’s why this thread is about stuff you want to make sure is present,
not relying on the distro defaults.
I mentioned to *install* MAWK because of -We and then it was YOU who
turned that into a "PERL is better" discussion.
And then you seemed to forget about that “install” part, didn’t you?
rbowman
2024-07-09 01:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I never bothered to expend the brain cells to learn awk. perl does
everything awk does, just as concisely, and a lot more besides.
That's what Larry Wall says... Some of the stranger syntax of Perl is
courtesy of awk, sed, and so forth.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-07-07 10:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
Dont recognise any.

For me its Geany, Libre Office. GIMP, Scribus Thunderbird, Firefox, ORCA
slicer, gcc and friends, under a windows VM Corel Draw and Rhino CAD,
Screenshot

etc etc.

In fact all you need to create code, 3D prints, PCBs, and keep up with
the world on the interweb...and do my officey type crap
--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen
D
2024-07-07 10:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
For me it's:

vlc
mc
neovim
yt-dlp
bash
alpine (the email client)
rsync
various scripts I've amassed throughout the years for various things
ssh (server and client)
qpdf
python
tor
ffmpg
groff
tectonic (minimal latex distribution)

Probably forgot a few, but these are the first ones that come to mind.
candycanearter07
2024-07-07 13:30:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but

git obviously
krita
aseprite
screen
rxvt-unicode
cool-retro-term
audacious
mpv (and the ffmpeg dependency)
imagemagick
picom
vim
n30f
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
screen
less
rofi
bucklespring (optional)
mc (optional)

aptitude (if on debian based)


sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
candycanearter07
2024-07-07 13:50:03 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by candycanearter07
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
Does anyone know how to make it stop leaving a constant trail? (nautilus
desktop)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
rbowman
2024-07-07 18:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
xsnow?
candycanearter07
2024-07-07 20:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by candycanearter07
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
xsnow?
More of a seasonal thing IMO, I only turn that on from September to
March
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Borax Man
2024-07-08 10:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by candycanearter07
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
xsnow?
Ahh, I forgot to mention xsnow!
There is also xroach.

Oneko draws a cat that follows your mouse pointer.
candycanearter07
2024-07-08 13:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Post by rbowman
Post by candycanearter07
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
xsnow?
Ahh, I forgot to mention xsnow!
There is also xroach.
Oneko draws a cat that follows your mouse pointer.
Interesting. I don't like oneko that much bc it makes it hard to see
what I'm trying to look at sometimes, and xroach sounds gross.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Borax Man
2024-07-08 10:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but
git obviously
krita
aseprite
screen
rxvt-unicode
cool-retro-term
audacious
mpv (and the ffmpeg dependency)
imagemagick
picom
vim
n30f
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
screen
less
rofi
bucklespring (optional)
mc (optional)
aptitude (if on debian based)
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
I always have both XScreenSaver and XLockmore.
candycanearter07
2024-07-08 13:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but
git obviously
krita
aseprite
screen
rxvt-unicode
cool-retro-term
audacious
mpv (and the ffmpeg dependency)
imagemagick
picom
vim
n30f
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
screen
less
rofi
bucklespring (optional)
mc (optional)
aptitude (if on debian based)
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
I always have both XScreenSaver and XLockmore.
Do they work together?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Borax Man
2024-07-10 09:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but
git obviously
krita
aseprite
screen
rxvt-unicode
cool-retro-term
audacious
mpv (and the ffmpeg dependency)
imagemagick
picom
vim
n30f
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
screen
less
rofi
bucklespring (optional)
mc (optional)
aptitude (if on debian based)
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
I always have both XScreenSaver and XLockmore.
Do they work together?
Not really! I generally just use xlock when I want to lock my screen.
XScreenSaver, well, my kids enjoy watching the bouncing cows, they think
its hilarious!
candycanearter07
2024-07-10 13:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
- fortune
- cowsay
- xpenguins
- fvwm(3)
- oneko
- emacs
- mc
- zsh
- asclock (using the FreeAMP theme)
- PCManFM
- star
- urxvt
- xpat2
- xlock
- links
- most
- lftp
- lzip
- xclip
- screen
- lrzsz
- gcc/g++/gdc
- nasm
- locate
- dar
I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but
git obviously
krita
aseprite
screen
rxvt-unicode
cool-retro-term
audacious
mpv (and the ffmpeg dependency)
imagemagick
picom
vim
n30f
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
screen
less
rofi
bucklespring (optional)
mc (optional)
aptitude (if on debian based)
sidenote thank you for mentioning xpenguins i have been looking for a
replacement for AMOR (amazing misuse of resources) forever since it wont
compile for me under debian
I always have both XScreenSaver and XLockmore.
Do they work together?
Not really! I generally just use xlock when I want to lock my screen.
XScreenSaver, well, my kids enjoy watching the bouncing cows, they think
its hilarious!
Oh, IG I'll stick to XSS then. Do you run them directly from
/usr/lib/xscreensaver? (or libexec)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Nuno Silva
2024-07-10 21:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
[...]
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
I'm sure I'm forgetting some here, but
[...]
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
xscreensaver (yes i use it as my locker)
[...]
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Borax Man
I always have both XScreenSaver and XLockmore.
Do they work together?
Not really! I generally just use xlock when I want to lock my screen.
XScreenSaver, well, my kids enjoy watching the bouncing cows, they think
its hilarious!
Oh, IG I'll stick to XSS then. Do you run them directly from
/usr/lib/xscreensaver? (or libexec)
To lock a system running X11, there's also vlock -n -a (At least in the
standalone utility I have in this distro, I think some other package now
also provides a vlock with less features? Or am I misremembering?)

But with vlock you don't get the fun and interesting part of watching
screensavers.
--
Nuno Silva
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 22:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
XScreenSaver, well, my kids enjoy watching the bouncing cows, they think
its hilarious!
I would just leave it on “random” so you never knew which display it would
run on the next activation. Some of them are just mind-blowing.
vallor
2024-07-11 00:07:44 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 22:19:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Borax Man
XScreenSaver, well, my kids enjoy watching the bouncing cows, they
think its hilarious!
I would just leave it on “random” so you never knew which display it
would run on the next activation. Some of them are just mind-blowing.
I have mine set to "Star Wars", with text input from a script I wrote
to display fortunes:

$ cat myfortune.sh
#!/bin/bash
fortune -c | grep -v "^\%"
echo +++

# - -%<- -

...and turned down the scroll speed a bit.
--
-v ASUS TUF Dash F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile
OS: Linux 5.15.0-113-lowlatency Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 15.9G
Fritz Wuehler
2024-07-07 14:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Borax Man <***@hotmail.com> [BM]:
BM> Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and
BM> other elements that make up a basic install), do you consider
BM> to be a vital part of YOUR Linux install?

Some stuff not already mentioned by other posters:

curl # It's a wide, wide world out there. Grab a piece of it!
gpg # It's a very dangerous world out there. You gotta keep your head low!
jq # It's a JSON world out there. Join the fun!
xdotool # It's a world full of boring chores out there. Just automate it!
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-07 21:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fritz Wuehler
curl
Avoid.
Post by Fritz Wuehler
jq
Yes, has its uses.
Post by Fritz Wuehler
xdotool # It's a world full of boring chores out there. Just automate it!
That’s what the command line is for.
Fritz Wuehler
2024-07-08 14:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <***@nz.invalid> [LD]:
LD>> xdotool
LD>
LD> That¢s what the command line is for.

xdotool is a _command-line_ X11 automation tool.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 23:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fritz Wuehler
xdotool is a _command-line_ X11 automation tool.
We call a command-line automation tool a “shell”.
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fritz Wuehler
LD>> xdotool
LD>
LD> That¢s what the command line is for.
xdotool is a _command-line_ X11 automation tool.
It's also very useful for some macro keybindings, or if a program
doesn't support --geometry. Also, marking a program as "always on
bottom"
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Computer Nerd Kev
2024-07-07 23:18:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install?
Beyond a base install it depends entirely on what I have in mind
for doing with the computer. But some that I often end up
installing manually because they're not included in the distro
base:

Network tools that should be there already, but may need
installing (GNU inetutils versions):
ifconfig
telnet
ftp

Other network tools:
links
tin
mosh
nmap
whois
dig

Format Conversions:
ghostscript
imagemagick
ffmpeg

Decompressors I always end up needing eventually:
p7zip or 7z
unrar

If it's a graphical install (always X11):
jwm (window manager)
xzgv (image viewer)
dillo (web browser)
xpdf (PDF viewer)
gv (postscript + pdf viewer)

Other tools:
tree
hunspell
mc
gcc
git
bc
apt-file (Devuan)
aptitude (Devuan - I wish the changelog fetcher worked!)

Lots more tools, especially graphical, depend on what I intend to
do with the computer, eg. Firefox on a PC but not on a RPi Zero.
I've assumed a few programs that others have mentioned, like wget,
are in the distro base packages already.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
yeti
2024-07-08 00:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
ifconfig
;-)
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
ftp
You tried lftp?
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
mosh
Can't live without! How could I forget to mention it in my list?
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
aptitude (Devuan - I wish the changelog fetcher worked!)
Yip.
--
Trust me, I know what I'm doing...
Computer Nerd Kev
2024-07-08 23:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by yeti
ftp
You tried lftp?
I've used that before for complex recursive tasks using (S)FTP,
though the simpler clients usually do all I need. At the other
extreme ncftpget and ncftpput or their Busybox equivalents can
be very useful too for using one-line commands. Then there's
CurlFtpFS, though it doesn't use the FTP protocol very efficiently
at all (multiple connections just to grab one file). It also needs
a patch to work with newer libcurl versions or it chokes on certain
filename characters. Or there's a "CurlFtpFS-NG" fork.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 06:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
ifconfig
iproute2, surely.
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there’s a format or codec it doesn’t
handle, it’s because that format or codec simply isn’t worth using.
Computer Nerd Kev
2024-07-08 23:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
ifconfig
iproute2, surely.
I can do all I want with ifconfig, and in spite of what some people
claim the GNU inetutils version is still maintained so there's no
reason to switch.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there's a format or codec it doesn't
handle, it's because that format or codec simply isn't worth using.
Indeed, although it's unfortunate that the ways to do some
seemingly easy things like joining two video files together can
require a very complicated set of command-line options.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 23:18:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there's a format or codec it
doesn't handle, it's because that format or codec simply isn't worth
using.
Indeed, although it's unfortunate that the ways to do some seemingly
easy things like joining two video files together can require a very
complicated set of command-line options.
Because some file formats (e.g. MPEG-4) do not work if you simply
concatenate files.

If you want a container that can be (more) easily split apart and joined,
and can even start playing before it has completely downloaded, try .ts
(“transport stream”) format.
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there's a format or codec it
doesn't handle, it's because that format or codec simply isn't worth
using.
Indeed, although it's unfortunate that the ways to do some seemingly
easy things like joining two video files together can require a very
complicated set of command-line options.
Because some file formats (e.g. MPEG-4) do not work if you simply
concatenate files.
If you want a container that can be (more) easily split apart and joined,
and can even start playing before it has completely downloaded, try .ts
(“transport stream”) format.
I've never heard of that, but it sounds interesting! Is it a more raw
format like .wav?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Nuno Silva
2024-07-09 08:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there's a format or codec it
doesn't handle, it's because that format or codec simply isn't worth
using.
Indeed, although it's unfortunate that the ways to do some seemingly
easy things like joining two video files together can require a very
complicated set of command-line options.
Because some file formats (e.g. MPEG-4) do not work if you simply
concatenate files.
If you want a container that can be (more) easily split apart and joined,
and can even start playing before it has completely downloaded, try .ts
(“transport stream”) format.
I've never heard of that, but it sounds interesting! Is it a more raw
format like .wav?
It's another MPEG container. I think one use of this is DVB (so,
"digital television").

Just like there is a different MPEG container used in DVD-Video.

My question here would be how flexible it is regarding what can be in
the container. From what I remember of DVD-Video, these containers
aren't that limited, you just need to stick to some criteria if you want
compatibility with a specific kind of player (say, DVD-Video, where IIRC
the video stream has to be encoded using MPEG-2, and should have one of
a few frame sizes, likewise subtitles probably need to be in the bitmap
format, even if MPEG can carry other subtitle formats (I think DVB also
defines a textual format for subtitles?)).
--
Nuno Silva
candycanearter07
2024-07-10 13:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nuno Silva
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there's a format or codec it
doesn't handle, it's because that format or codec simply isn't worth
using.
Indeed, although it's unfortunate that the ways to do some seemingly
easy things like joining two video files together can require a very
complicated set of command-line options.
Because some file formats (e.g. MPEG-4) do not work if you simply
concatenate files.
If you want a container that can be (more) easily split apart and joined,
and can even start playing before it has completely downloaded, try .ts
(“transport stream”) format.
I've never heard of that, but it sounds interesting! Is it a more raw
format like .wav?
It's another MPEG container. I think one use of this is DVB (so,
"digital television").
Just like there is a different MPEG container used in DVD-Video.
Oh, cool! I didn't know that.
Post by Nuno Silva
My question here would be how flexible it is regarding what can be in
the container. From what I remember of DVD-Video, these containers
aren't that limited, you just need to stick to some criteria if you want
compatibility with a specific kind of player (say, DVD-Video, where IIRC
the video stream has to be encoded using MPEG-2, and should have one of
a few frame sizes, likewise subtitles probably need to be in the bitmap
format, even if MPEG can carry other subtitle formats (I think DVB also
defines a textual format for subtitles?)).
Wait, subtitles were saved as bitmap images?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 22:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Wait, subtitles were saved as bitmap images?
In DVD-Video, they were called “subpictures”, and had 2 bits per pixel.
That meant a choice of four different colour-table entries.
Computer Nerd Kev
2024-07-09 22:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
ffmpeg
The multimedia sonic screwdriver. If there's a format or codec it
doesn't handle, it's because that format or codec simply isn't worth
using.
Indeed, although it's unfortunate that the ways to do some seemingly
easy things like joining two video files together can require a very
complicated set of command-line options.
Because some file formats (e.g. MPEG-4) do not work if you simply
concatenate files.
Well yeah, otherwise I'd just use Cat. Anyway thankfully I don't
have to do it often. Last time was to set up a scripted process for
someone to get video 'scenes' off their camera as one continuous
video, then they never used it and changed their mind about
learning to use a video editor program, which they'd adamantly
refused to do when I suggested it in the first place. Huff.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 00:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Last time was to set up a scripted process for someone to
get video 'scenes' off their camera as one continuous video ...
Remember to use “-c copy” to avoid reencoding any of the data (with
consequent quality loss). That way it just gets repacked into the new
file, which is also a lot faster.
Borax Man
2024-07-08 10:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install?
Beyond a base install it depends entirely on what I have in mind
for doing with the computer. But some that I often end up
installing manually because they're not included in the distro
Network tools that should be there already, but may need
ifconfig
telnet
ftp
links
tin
mosh
nmap
whois
dig
ghostscript
imagemagick
ffmpeg
p7zip or 7z
unrar
jwm (window manager)
xzgv (image viewer)
dillo (web browser)
xpdf (PDF viewer)
gv (postscript + pdf viewer)
tree
hunspell
mc
gcc
git
bc
apt-file (Devuan)
aptitude (Devuan - I wish the changelog fetcher worked!)
Lots more tools, especially graphical, depend on what I intend to
do with the computer, eg. Firefox on a PC but not on a RPi Zero.
I've assumed a few programs that others have mentioned, like wget,
are in the distro base packages already.
I think you can tell when someone switched to Linux, by what programs
they consider required accessories.
candycanearter07
2024-07-08 13:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Post by Computer Nerd Kev
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install?
Beyond a base install it depends entirely on what I have in mind
for doing with the computer. But some that I often end up
installing manually because they're not included in the distro
Network tools that should be there already, but may need
ifconfig
telnet
ftp
links
tin
mosh
nmap
whois
dig
ghostscript
imagemagick
ffmpeg
p7zip or 7z
unrar
jwm (window manager)
xzgv (image viewer)
dillo (web browser)
xpdf (PDF viewer)
gv (postscript + pdf viewer)
tree
hunspell
mc
gcc
git
bc
apt-file (Devuan)
aptitude (Devuan - I wish the changelog fetcher worked!)
Lots more tools, especially graphical, depend on what I intend to
do with the computer, eg. Firefox on a PC but not on a RPi Zero.
I've assumed a few programs that others have mentioned, like wget,
are in the distro base packages already.
I think you can tell when someone switched to Linux, by what programs
they consider required accessories.
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Simon
2024-07-08 13:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would choose to
keep Windows at all?
--
Simon

RLU: 222126
candycanearter07
2024-07-08 14:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would choose to
keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Simon
2024-07-08 17:10:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would choose to
keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
The learning curve is the installation and adhoc fixes, for the average use the
internet starts with the Google page and their bookmarks.

Having set many people up with KDE and Firefox they really didn't notice any
difference. Except the wallpaper telling them their Windows was not activated.
--
Simon

RLU: 222126
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would choose to
keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
The learning curve is the installation and adhoc fixes, for the average use the
internet starts with the Google page and their bookmarks.
Fair, though gaming and some professional apps cough adobe are still
difficult to get around
Post by Simon
Having set many people up with KDE and Firefox they really didn't notice any
difference. Except the wallpaper telling them their Windows was not activated.
Good news, there's a program to recreate that! (activate-linux)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 23:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Simon
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
Most of that is actually an UNlearning curve, don’t forget. Things that
you expect to have to worry about, that actually you don’t.
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:36:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Simon
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
Most of that is actually an UNlearning curve, don’t forget. Things that
you expect to have to worry about, that actually you don’t.
Right, but that still would be difficult to unlearn.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
rbowman
2024-07-09 02:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Simon
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
Most of that is actually an UNlearning curve, don’t forget. Things that
you expect to have to worry about, that actually you don’t.
Right, but that still would be difficult to unlearn.
If you progressed from CP/M and DOS there wasn't that much to unlearn.
I've nothing against GUIs but I'm usually not far from Konsole, xterm.
Windows Terminal or whatever else gives me a command line.
candycanearter07
2024-07-10 13:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by candycanearter07
Post by Simon
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
Most of that is actually an UNlearning curve, don’t forget. Things that
you expect to have to worry about, that actually you don’t.
Right, but that still would be difficult to unlearn.
If you progressed from CP/M and DOS there wasn't that much to unlearn.
I've nothing against GUIs but I'm usually not far from Konsole, xterm.
Windows Terminal or whatever else gives me a command line.
Yeah, but most people nowadays use Windows and stuff
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
rbowman
2024-07-10 19:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Yeah, but most people nowadays use Windows and stuff
Agreed. My Windows usage tends to be a little different. I really like
WindowsTerminal, particularly how I can open a new tab into the WSL
installation. I was very happy when MS finally got around to multiple
virtual desktops. Most Windows users don't even know what I'm talking
about.

I even see that with out support people. They use FileZilla; I use psftp
from the command line or sftp on Linux. I don't have putty on the Linux
box so I don't know if that would also install psftp.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 22:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
I was very happy when MS finally got around to multiple
virtual desktops. Most Windows users don't even know what I'm talking
about.
Probably because they still don’t work right. On Windows, they require
cooperation from the app in order to work. On *nix systems, they don’t.
Popping Mad
2024-07-09 09:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
That is bullshit. You think it is easy to get Windows to do ANYTHING?
That was never true, not even before ximian, and it is still not true.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-07-09 09:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Popping Mad
Post by candycanearter07
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
That is bullshit. You think it is easy to get Windows to do ANYTHING?
That was never true, not even before ximian, and it is still not true.
The only reason Windows is popular is because it comes pre-installed on
computers, and many 3rd party apps will only run on it.
--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.
candycanearter07
2024-07-10 13:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Popping Mad
Post by candycanearter07
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
That is bullshit. You think it is easy to get Windows to do ANYTHING?
That was never true, not even before ximian, and it is still not true.
The only reason Windows is popular is because it comes pre-installed on
computers, and many 3rd party apps will only run on it.
And the whole snowball effect of "everyone uses it so everyone knows how
to deal with its issues" thing.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
The Natural Philosopher
2024-07-10 14:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
Post by The Natural Philosopher
The only reason Windows is popular is because it comes pre-installed on
computers, and many 3rd party apps will only run on it.
And the whole snowball effect of "everyone uses it so everyone knows how
to deal with its issues" thing.
Nothing succeeds like success, eh?
--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
Charlie Gibbs
2024-07-10 21:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by candycanearter07
Post by The Natural Philosopher
The only reason Windows is popular is because it comes pre-installed on
computers, and many 3rd party apps will only run on it.
And the whole snowball effect of "everyone uses it so everyone knows how
to deal with its issues" thing.
Nothing succeeds like success, eh?
As I used to say back in the mainframe days:

Everybody uses COBOL because everybody uses COBOL.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | the first society that wouldn't
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | save itself because it wasn't
/ \ if you read it the right way. | cost-effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-10 22:22:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by candycanearter07
And the whole snowball effect of "everyone uses it so everyone knows how
to deal with its issues" thing.
“Dealing with issues” usually means:

* If it gives trouble, reboot it.
* If it still gives trouble, reinstall.

How many Windows users know anything beyond this?
Borax Man
2024-07-10 09:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Popping Mad
Post by candycanearter07
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
That is bullshit. You think it is easy to get Windows to do ANYTHING?
That was never true, not even before ximian, and it is still not true.
I agree, Windows was quite difficult too. Back in the Windows 95/98
days I had to reinstall a few times, because of viruses and corruption.
I remember having corrupted registries, vague GDI errors, things I
didn't know how to fix. I remember people having problems with Windows,
coming to me for help because I did "know computers", but still being
stuck.

Windows is easy when it works, but when it stuffed up, it was just as
difficult.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-07-10 09:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Post by Popping Mad
Post by candycanearter07
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
That is bullshit. You think it is easy to get Windows to do ANYTHING?
That was never true, not even before ximian, and it is still not true.
I agree, Windows was quite difficult too. Back in the Windows 95/98
days I had to reinstall a few times, because of viruses and corruption.
I remember having corrupted registries, vague GDI errors, things I
didn't know how to fix. I remember people having problems with Windows,
coming to me for help because I did "know computers", but still being
stuck.
Windows is easy when it works, but when it stuffed up, it was just as
difficult.
Windows had two advantages
- it came pre installed and the shop knew how to reinstall it
- many more people knew how to fix its current problems

It needed them because right from when I switched over in Win98 it was a
lot less stable, and quirky and virus prone.

But all these comparisons with linux are fairly pointless. People who
run Windows do so for other reasons.
--
I was brought up to believe that you should never give offence if you
can avoid it; the new culture tells us you should always take offence if
you can. There are now experts in the art of taking offence, indeed
whole academic subjects, such as 'gender studies', devoted to it.

Sir Roger Scruton
Bobbie Sellers
2024-07-10 14:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Post by Popping Mad
Post by candycanearter07
Well, if you grew up with it, there would be a huge learning curve
moving to Linux..
That is bullshit. You think it is easy to get Windows to do ANYTHING?
That was never true, not even before ximian, and it is still not true.
I agree, Windows was quite difficult too. Back in the Windows 95/98
days I had to reinstall a few times, because of viruses and corruption.
I remember having corrupted registries, vague GDI errors, things I
didn't know how to fix. I remember people having problems with Windows,
coming to me for help because I did "know computers", but still being
stuck.
Windows is easy when it works, but when it stuffed up, it was just as
difficult.
I tried DOS/CPM but I learned to write Startup Scripts in
AmigaOS 1.3 -3.9. back when i was enduring middle-age. Before my
Amigacomputer died I started on Linux using Xp along the way. I feel for
you guys that did not start with a friendly OS. Of course I started
with a C=64 and learned to insert formatting commands in PaperClip.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.07- Linux 6.6.36- Plasma 5.27.11
--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com
rbowman
2024-07-08 18:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
I read 'first' as the first OS a person was exposed to.
Lew Pitcher
2024-07-08 18:29:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
I read 'first' as the first OS a person was exposed to.
For me, that would be IBM's (mainframe) DOS/VS, at college.

;-)
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"
Charlie Gibbs
2024-07-08 21:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by rbowman
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
I read 'first' as the first OS a person was exposed to.
For me, that would be IBM's (mainframe) DOS/VS, at college.
Our school ran MTS on a 360/67.
Post by Lew Pitcher
;-)
Back at you, good buddy.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | the first society that wouldn't
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | save itself because it wasn't
/ \ if you read it the right way. | cost-effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut
rbowman
2024-07-08 22:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew Pitcher
For me, that would be IBM's (mainframe) DOS/VS, at college.
;-)
That was a latecomer. For me it was DOS/360 or whatever a System 360/30
was running in '65. I never got closer than turning in the deck of cards
and getting the greenbar printout.
John Dallman
2024-07-08 21:26:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
I read 'first' as the first OS a person was exposed to.
Um ... RSTS/E, then BSD 4.1.

John
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
I read 'first' as the first OS a person was exposed to.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Most home and school computers would probably
be MacOS or Windows.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Simon
2024-07-09 10:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Simon
Post by candycanearter07
To be fair, having Linux as your first OS would be very rare.
Why would you think that? Having the choice and the ability who would
choose to keep Windows at all?
I read 'first' as the first OS a person was exposed to.
OK, I thought it was first as in primary, my bad.
--
Simon

RLU: 222126
Nuno Silva
2024-07-08 15:22:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
For me, its
[...]
Post by Borax Man
- star
[...]
Post by Borax Man
- lzip
BSD tar. Might be installed as part of libarchive in some systems.
--
Nuno Silva
Anssi Saari
2024-07-08 20:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
Varies but probably less, tmux, zsh and some minimal vi for editor are
the bare minimum. In fact, even back when I had a router with just 8 MB
flash for all storage, those four went in. Well, screen instead of tmux
back then. Uncomfortable to think people make do with awful Busybox.

X server or client stuff is by no means required since some of my
machines are headless. Might be some throwaway virtual machine too for
something or other.

Usually also:

- Emacs if there's more editing or note taking to do and/or I get around
to it as then I'll want to pull my shared Emacs config somehow and
that means some sync setup or at least git.

- These days, bat for a file viewer or vim, same reason, color support
for easier reading of various files in the terminal.

- I usually eventually will need wget and then likely unzip and possibly
some other uncompression tools may follow.

- bup for backups if needed.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-08 23:19:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
- I usually eventually will need wget and then likely unzip and possibly
some other uncompression tools may follow.
unar seems to work well for decompressing several different archive
formats in one program.
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Anssi Saari
- I usually eventually will need wget and then likely unzip and possibly
some other uncompression tools may follow.
unar seems to work well for decompressing several different archive
formats in one program.
7z is another good "swiss army knife" decompression tool:

DESCRIPTION
7-Zip is a file archiver supporting 7z (that implements LZMA compres‐
sion algorithm featuring very high compression ratio), LZMA2, XZ, ZIP,
Zip64, CAB, RAR (if the non-free p7zip-rar package is installed), ARJ,
GZIP, BZIP2, TAR, CPIO, RPM, ISO, most filesystem images and DEB for‐
mats. Compression ratio in the new 7z format is 30-50% better than ra‐
tio in ZIP format.

(source: 7z man page)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
candycanearter07
2024-07-09 00:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Borax Man
Just wondering what programs (aside from the coreutils/X11 and other
elements that make up a basic install), do you consider to be a vital
part of YOUR Linux install? What are the little additional tools that
you can't live without, or just consider to be necessary that maybe
others wouldn't?
Varies but probably less, tmux, zsh and some minimal vi for editor are
the bare minimum. In fact, even back when I had a router with just 8 MB
flash for all storage, those four went in. Well, screen instead of tmux
back then. Uncomfortable to think people make do with awful Busybox.
X server or client stuff is by no means required since some of my
machines are headless. Might be some throwaway virtual machine too for
something or other.
- Emacs if there's more editing or note taking to do and/or I get around
to it as then I'll want to pull my shared Emacs config somehow and
that means some sync setup or at least git.
:(
Post by Anssi Saari
- These days, bat for a file viewer or vim, same reason, color support
for easier reading of various files in the terminal.
It's always nice to have. exa is another one I like (ls replacement).
Post by Anssi Saari
- I usually eventually will need wget and then likely unzip and possibly
some other uncompression tools may follow.
- bup for backups if needed.
Bup seems very useful..
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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